Twitter is now my favorite place to go for stimulating conversations or to read articles that inspire me to write on a non-fiction topic. Today, another serial fiction writer (who I haven’t read yet, but they’re in the TBR list) commented how their site’s traffic was rising, and now they only needed to sort out how to get people to click the donation button. I jokingly replied, “When you figure it out, let me know how it works.”
This prompted another writer, Rebecca Sutton, to offer a few ideas. First, she suggested that in spite of giving readers regular serial fiction updates, the real reason that you readers haven’t donated yet is that I still need to give you a better incentive to donate than just the fiction.
She also suggested that despite me reminding you between stories about the location of my tip button, you guys are probably still missing it over on the sidebar of my web site. She said it’s too small and generic, and being over there on the side, she says you’re not even looking at it.
This…has the ring of truth to it. I’m not pointing a finger at you folks. I’m taking my own surfing habits into account. I do have exceptions, sidebars that I will read because I support the site, or because I also follow some of the linked writers. I weave a fast route through my regular blogs because of sidebars. I don’t even bother with the bookmarks button. I just surf through sidebars.
BUT, do I see anything besides my preferred links? No. So I’m missing someone’s donation button for sure. In the last six months, I’ve donated to sites, blogs and causes. I’ve subscribed to two magazines, and to two smaller indie ‘zines. I’m doing my part to help, but I have a limited budget. So sometimes I try not to see the donation buttons. Not because I’m stingy, but because all my money is elsewhere.
I think some of you people do that too, and I think you do it for the same reason. You are supporting some people already, and whatever is left over at the end of the week, it’s not enough to justify a donation to me. That being the case, I have a dilemma. I have to give you the incentive to make me one of your regular donations.
No one is yet, and I must assume I’m doing something wrong. I’d like to know if there is something I could do to help convince you, so I’m once again asking for your opinions. What I want to do is present you with some questions, and then I’m gonna ramble for a bit. You can just read the questions and scroll down to answer in a comment if you want to miss the rambling. Okay, the questions:
Assuming that you’ve enjoyed the past serial stories, but haven’t donated, what would I need to offer in order to convince you to donate? Do I need to make the button bigger and move it to a more visible location? Do I need to offer some kind of PDF certificate of gratitude? Or put up a “wall of thanks” for the names of people who donate? Do you have some other ideas for what might convince you to send support through donations?
Okay, those are the main questions. Now the ramble.
I’ve often referred to myself as the world’s lousiest marketer because I am always fnding new ways to cut myself off from traditional online advertising methods. My main reason is that as an online netizen, I know what kinds of behavior I find most annoying in marketers, so I don’t do those things in my own marketing.
Problem is, this doesn’t leave me with much else to do when I want to ballyhoo a new story. When you think about how well I’ve been doing recently, you have to wonder how much better I’d be doing if I ever stumbled onto an effective method of advertising that didn’t annoy the shit out of people.
My blog has been really effective at generating traffic, but I believe this is because I avoid making every post an ad for me. I rant about stuff that annoys me, or a I gush about other peoples’ stuff that has captured my interest. In between these posts, I give you serial fiction, or bonus blog fiction. And sometimes I just let down all the barriers and whine.
I’m trying to offer you a little bit of everything so that when I make a post to ask for donations and remind you to look at my books, it’s just a friendly reminder that won’t annoy you. I know that when I do post a reminder, my numbers jump up. All of them. My sales in the Kindle store go up, and the number of e-books download on my site rise. My book downloads on Smashwords pick up a bit too.
This tempts me to post more reminders, but herein lies my problem with using the blog to advertise. At what point do the reminders become begging? Ami allowed to make a reminder once a week? Once a month? Or are these pushing it too far into begging already?
The same question also applies to asking for reviews and ratings. Any regular reader already knows the spiel, so how often am I allowed to get away with giving it to the new people before it’s too repetitive and dull for the established regulars?
I’m not so worried about offending you with something I write, obviously. But it’s one thing if you leave because you don’t care for the content I offer, or because you suddenly realize I’m crazy and you decide to wander to saner pastures. It’s another problem altogether if you leave because I’m begging too much for your support.
As with all my questions, the answers rests with the readers. If you’ve made it through my ramble to this point, I’d like to request your opinion on how much advertising on a blog is too much.
And finally, I’d like to know what else I might have to offer to encourage more reviews or ratings for my stories This is a separate issue from what you would need as an incentive to donate, but it is no less important to making the blog and web site successful. In fact, I’d want your honest reviews and ratings before I’d ask for your donations. So I would be very interested in knowing what incentives you’d like to see in exchange for more reviews.
And this the end of the Spanish Inquisition. Tune in next time for more of my usual insane ranting.
I am a bisexual transsexual with bigender tendencies. I'm a former resident of Texas, but now live in Milan with my husband. I write in a variety of genres and have self-published ebooks through my 
At some point, I hope to have enough of a cash flow to be able to donate, not just to you but to some of the other indie ‘zines I’ve been reading. Unfortunately, that’s just not the case right now.
It won’t matter whether or not I find a donation button, I’ll track down email addresses, contact the person(s) and find out how to donate. I’ve already got your paypal account, so you’d probably just get a random payment that leaves you going what the hell?….
Sadly, I’ve been horribly burned by non-stop ‘gimme money’ shite run by some folks. Over three years, I ‘donated’ or bought crap totaling up into the hundreds, had stuff arrive so badly packaged it was ALL broken, or didn’t arrive at all. And then had those same people screw me out of money they actually owed me for work done (and which I would have again donated back into the company).
You – I trust. I’m just extremely distrustful of pretty much everyone else, and it’s all down to the ones that continuously scam their readers.
Jodi, you do not have to worry about donations. You’ve plugged my stories many times on your blog. I know what you mean about cyber-beggars and that’s why I always try to offer folks the second option of offering vocal support instead of financial. I appreciate both forms of support, and if someone offers me a solid review, that’s just as good as cash to me.
On a side note, *hugs*. I’ve missed your comments around here. I know you’re crazy busy, so I’m glad you could stop by to offer your thoughts on the topic.
*muah*
Still, some day you’re gonna be all like, wtf?
Because I love those wtf? posts…and the youtube stuff. And butt scratching.
*hugs* Eventually the crazy will stop and I’ll just be busy. One of these nights, I’m gonna sit down and read through all of the posts I’ve missed lately!
I stand by my original statement that you need to make people feel they are getting some value out of donating.
It’s an odd thing that a lot of people will buy at a reasonable price even when they can legitimately get it free, but they’re less likely to give a donation for something that’s free unless there’s something in it for them. If I was psychologist I’d probably be able to explain it as it is I just shrug and go “hey, people are weird that way.”
Now you obviously don’t want to paying out moolah for however you compensate for donations so it needs to be something free.
The nanowrimo site gives donaters a golden halo on the forums and has a roll of honour page where donators names or pseudonames are mentioned. You don’t have a forum so a halo type thing is out but a roll of honour is possible.
Also that web comic I linked to on twitter the guy has a premium section of the site with behind the scenes stuff like concept art that only donators can visit. One off donations get you a password for a month while subscription donations get you one that lasts until you cancel. Now obviously text based fiction doesn’t really have concept art but it might be adaptable with thought. One thing I’d be doubtful about would be bonus stories. Like him I’d be inclined to go with background stuff.
Since you’ve stated that you’re using the webcomic model the best thing might be to study some webcomics and see how they handle it. If the content is engaging requesting donations shouldn’t put people off.
Hope this helps,
Becky
I agreed with your comments, which is why I posted the question out to folks instead of making a rant about how wrong you are. You’re only wrong 25% of the time, really. =^P
On the idea of the behind the scenes stuff, I tend to release my notes well before the stories come out as a way to whet peoples’ appetites. I am thinking about some way to offer a premium content, but for now, I’m not sure what that will be.
I’m using Jan’s advice on the donations page, so perhaps after the explanation, I can also add a roll call of “General Zoe’s most trusted allies,” or something similar. It’s a good idea to provide incentives for donation and reviews, so I’m hoping to come up with something that makes people want to jump on, above and beyond the names card. Definitely thinking about the premium content.
So, thank you again for the initial suggestion, and for your comment here.
I’m only wrong about 25% of time? Probably true – I might put it closer to 1/3 but that’s because I have no confidence.
I’m glad you agreed with my points – I tried to apply logic to the situation based on what I knew of people. Obviously my brain did not fail me this time (given I’m trying not to take painkillers at the moment and thus have a permanent rebound headache this is not a foregone conclusion)
The premium content is definately a biggy I think – though like you say it’s not immediately obvious what to use.
Glad I could be helpful,
Becky
Allright, couldn’t wait until tomorrow, but don’t mind any grammar slips please…
I’ve got several remarks.
1st. I think you can place your donate button more prominent on your website without seeming too beggy. Afterall, it’s almost invisible now, and only on one small part of your website.
2nd. However, I wouldn’t put a donate button only, I would put on a fixed donate page, where you’d explain (witout any begging whatsoever) how much you’d appreciate even a small donation, what it means for your situation in life. Under the same page I would also put other ways people can help you, like reviews on the various sites your posted (with links obvisouly), where they can spread the word about your site (twitter, stumbleupon and so on) and other ways you can come up with. I’d throw in some fancy quotes too, just for the fun of it.
3d. If you’d do the above I’d fewer the so called begging post, but instead nudge you audience gently towards your “assist me I’m a poor wayfaring author”-page after every finished story. That way it won’t seem to your regular audience that your asking for money again.
4th. I have no idea if this is a strategy you dislike, but incentives seem to work for a lot of people publishing online. You could give something extra for every 10$/review/promotion you recieve. Starting from january (when I finally will have some money) I’ll give you a small donation for every cocktail recipe you post and I like….
5th. You can post a home-porn video online and only people who donate get the password… Sex sells
That was all, hope I helped…
(I’ve had half a bottle of wine, and I speak Dutch, so excuse my grammar and spelling mistakes this time, I’m not in the mood to double check)
LOL! Good post, and I like the 2nd and 3rd suggestions. After I get back from vacation, I guess my first task will be a new site design to incorporate these ideas.
As for the 5th idea, I always joke to one friend that if I bomb out as a writer, I’ll set up a webcam and start working in porn chatting. =^P
Yes, a very helpful post, and thank you for commenting! ^_^
Pssssst: When you’re implementing that new site design, don’t forget to add the blog
(Yay Peek’s on a TBR list!) I’m glad my initial post made you think. About four hours after I posted it, somebody donated. Totally randomly, and they’ve been following Peacock King since it was on a Blogger account (no shiny site of its own back in the December days!) If she hadn’t donated, I wouldn’t have even known she existed, since she’s shy and doesn’t comment on the chapters. It was the first donation we’ve gotten for Peacock King, and it happened because I randomly opened my mouth.
I, too, have been inclined not to whine about money, and keep my troubles to myself. Char, my cowriter, is the exact same way. We don’t like handouts. But I do have to remind myself, and her, quite often that the work we do is WORK. It is fun, but it is work, and I decided to post it on the internet for anyone to read because I thought we could start to make this our business. That means part of the business must be donations.
I actually donate pretty often to sites by buying advertising on them. It’s an instant way of tipping while also saying “hi!” I’ve made a couple of friends just by advertising on their sites through Project Wonderful.
Um, anyway. My rationale with donation buttons is that if it’s your site, it’s your space, and whatever decision you make about donations is fine by me. You’re offering material, you make the rules on what someone gives you for it and how often you extrend the information that you do, in fact, take PayPal. You’ve got to own it, and by own it I mean work it, honey! There is no shame in doing your work for pay. In fact, that is the very definition of being “professional”. Someone pays you for your work.
If you get more hits and tips when you remind people of the option, then that is the very indication from your audience that they not only condone the reminders, but appreciate them. I tend to take statistics as a good measure of crowd behavior. I know visitors like the new webpage for Peacock King more than the old Blogger, because my bounce rate changed by at least 30% after the switch-over. People buying your work after you make a note of it is a big “yes!” vote from your readers! Trust them! Believe in them! When they pay you, that’s a big sign that you’re doing something right!
I have a long history of marketing on the internet in a non-professional manner (fan-sites and such) and a degree in graphic design, and what I can say from drawing off of both of those educations is that what works is what works, no matter if it doesn’t make sense or seems a bit odd. Obnoxiousness is hard to achieve on the internet, in the middle of punching monkeys and scam emails. My pretty, elegant, understated ads get less attention than the funny animated ones, and less clicks. It’s a showman’s arena. People don’t expect or want you to shout, but they do expect you to try to make yourself heard clearly in a clever way… or they just won’t know you’re there at all.
Oh yeah. I’m gonna be making a “donate” page for Peacock King and actually changing the text above the donate button to more clearly explain that the site is reader-supported and that donations HELP. I’ll also be making an incentive section for donators with extra material for them only. Watching others think through this/make suggestions has helped me a lot.
Yet another thing I REALLY like about the online writers’s crowd – when everybody helps each other, everybody wins.
Really good comments, and I see nothing to disagree with or add to. I just wanted to mention that I’ll be able to get to look at Peacock King after I get back from Amsterdam in August. I’m looking forward to it. ^_^
Hi
I will gladly review all your future stories & posts. I am busy writing myself so I don’t have time to go through the archive posts of the blogs I visit. I pick up where I come in – if that makes any sense.
I will definitely donate to your site when I have money.
I have your books on my ToBeRead list. I’ll be buying the top three on your page at the end of August. ($=tight).
Love & Best Wishes from Canada
Rob
xxoo
Rob, thanks for commenting, and I understand about working forward instead of catching up through the backlog. I look forward to hearing you thoughts on the stories I post, and on the Campaign trilogy.
Gosh, what an interesting conversation! I love your helpful suggestions and the comments are wonderful.
In my experience, very few people donate unless the cause is an ill child or situation specific. Many non-profit organizations, including one I’m involved with, have found out the hard way that web donations don’t work. Further, most money made on the internet is made through affiliation contracts, not donations or advertisements.
Thus, I don’t think it’s you – it’s the medium. People are used to free television, radio and Internet. They don’t expect to pay.
Knowing this, I use the internet as a way to decrease my obscurity as a writer, not to make money.
Cheers!
Hmmm, well maybe I can work that in on my donations page. I mean, I’m retired and living at home because of MS, so maybe if people understand that their donations can help me out with my living conditions, it might give them more inclination to help.
Personally, I donate to many different causes online, from charities like the Shriners and Community for the preservation of Arts in the Classroom, to more personal efforts like sending a few buck to a person in need via Paypal. I know not everyone is willing to donate like that, which is why I also try to appeal to people for the ratings and reviews. It’s sort of a trading issue, like me saying, “I know you’re broke and time are hard, so how about a small investment of your time to let other people know that you liked the story.”
I’m going to use Jan’s idea, of a donation page, and so hopefully, I’0ll connect with both kinds of people, those willing to donate, like me, and those willing to contribute with word of mouth advertising, which is every bit as vital to an indie writer.
Thank you for your comments, and I hope your efforts online work out with more recognition AND more money.
I think Jan’s idea is a very good one. I have a book being serialized in two places at once, one with the “donate” button on the sidebar, and one as its own separate page at the end of the story. The sidebar is utterly useless to me (0.21% on the right, 0% on the left), but the “thanks and please help” page yields about a 1.1% rate of total readers.
The key seems to be framing it as honestly as you can. You’re an artist working for free, and you can’t keep doing that without support from readers. Anything they can offer helps a lot. Even if it’s just spreading the word. Oh, and make sure you make a few buttons for donations, with set amounts. I find if you leave it open-ended, people tend to shy away from it, like they don’t know what would be offensive to you. Better to get $2 than nothing at all.
I’m personally getting a decent amount of crankymail from people who dislike that I post about new chapters/releases on Twitter so much, and it’s making me second-guess myself. How often is too often? I rarely promote any one chapter more than 4 times (across 7 days), but apparently that’s annoying on its own.
I totally agree that marketing sucks. If only there were some other way…
Good points, and thank you for commenting. As to how many times one can twitter a post, I usually only post a link once per day. But this is becauseI post new parts of the stories every 2-3 days, so it doesn’t make sense for me to post old links.
If you’re getting flack for 4 posts a week, then I would suggest going half, with 2 posts a few days apart. Or, that’s my sugesstion. Thanks again for stopping by to comment!